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theoracle13
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PostSubject: Problems   Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:29 am

The following is a brief analysis of fallacies/problems with Viperaunion's posts on how to roleplay (referred to here as rulings):


“Autoing- Autoing is a form of Godmodding that involves any character making an attack that is stated to hit without the consent of the opponent's controller. It is not only damaging to the opponent's character, but incredibly rude and selfish. In order to avoid this, post in such a way that the character attacks, but do not state that it hits. This allows the opponents controller to decide whether their character dodges (Please note that to dodge every attack is also unfair), or whether it hits, and if so, how severe the inflicted wound is.”


The problem with this ruling is that is stifles some creativity of the players. This is because there are some attacks that cannot be dodged, such as a mental assault by a psionic. Another example would be a character doing a radial energy wave attack on a nearby character-the other character can’t dodge this, and so will be hit.




“Unauthorized Plot Twists- Okay, how many times has there been a moment in a book you didn't expect, and didn't exactly like? This is pretty similar to the feeling someone gets when there is an unauthorized plot twist. As an RPer, you are not a solo writer, and unless you are the GM, you cannot change the main plot. An unauthorized plot twist is something that completely derails the main storyline, and angers many people. Unauthorized plot twists also consist of anything that suddenly happens or a character does that is completely out-of-sync with everyone else. Here is an example of an unauthorized plot twist. It was taken from the same RP as the example for Metagaming, and happened moments after I got onto the character's controller for godmodding.”


If I remember right, it said earlier on this same page that RPing was different from other mediums in that the plotline was not set. So this point clashes with the ideas of RPing. In an RP characters are supposed to be able to react to things they find while they are doing whatever they are doing in the story. So if they aren’t allowed to do this, then what is the point of even playing? There is none, because they could get the same experience from playing a video game, where you can steer, but you must follow the road.




“Powerplaying- Powerplaying is taking control of another person's character. It is not always restricted to just someone elses' PC, but can also refer to taking control of an NPC someone else is already controlling. It may or may not involve fights, and is most prominent when someone powerplaying makes another person say or do something that is out of synch with their personality (Really, you shouldn't do it, period). Here is an example of Powerplaying:”


Now normally powerplaying is not acceptable in an RP, but there are certain conditions in which it actually can be and would make sense. Say there is a character that has powerful telepathic abilities, and they want to use this power during a fight. They could very reasonably use that power to cause an enemy to shoot themselves in the foot or head, depending on the circumstances. If the above post is applied, this would be met with outcries of “powerplayer” and “godmodder” etc. However, it is not powerplaying, because the character is simply using the powers they have to their advantage, which is logical, especially if they are in a situation when they could be killed otherwise.




“Artificial intelligence is incredibly popular in RPs involving the future and space travel. However, it is incredibly hard to nail, mainly because you are a human, and humans and robots are not the same thing. AI's are also sometimes excuses for trying to make an irrational character. So I would recommend not even bothering with them, but I can't stop you if you want to make one. Before you go any further, let me tell you this: This is not Wall-E. As cute as the movie might have been, robots do not have personalities, only programming. There are two kinds of AI: Efficient and Defective.

Efficient robots are just Like all AI, they cannot act exactly like humans. An efficient AI will function as it was programmed to do, and unless something happens to it, then it will continue to do what it was supposed to do. They are incapable of genuine feelings, or true creativity, and unlike humans, are programmed to make mistakes (Although I am not sure if people want mistakes). Therefore, unlike humans, which have no numbers or circuits to determine their outcomes and creativity, Efficient AIs are always determined by their programming. They do not act at all like humans, unless that aspect was programmed on purpose. An AI programmed to be like a human may have a very complex design. It can be designed to react with forms of emotion upon witnessing certain forms of stimuli, and may even be able to feign compassion, grief, or sympathy, although these emotions still remain part of programming, and are therefore not real. While someone may be very good with portraying an AI, they must never forget that it is still a machine, and that the machine does not have true creativity, nor can it understand why emotions work the way they do.

Defective robots are basically any robots that have glitches in their programming, or as some people like to call it, "what you get when someone wants a killing machine." The truth is, all AIs usually have glitches, however, it would take a truly awful programmer to make them as horrible as people like to make them. Let's say that you have an AI with a defective memory chip. In that case, it may have a tendency to forget or lose data that it gathered. Basically, you gave it a certain task, and it began doing the task, but stopped before finishing, because it forgot what it was supposed to be doing, or how to do the task itself. Unless it was a machine designed as a security drone or something, and its ability to identify targets was damaged, I seriously doubt there will be rogue machines trying to destroy everything, or take over the world.”



This ruling seems to partially confuse artificial intelligence with a computer, and while they usually share some traits, they are not the same. First of all, there are two types of artificial intelligence: perfect, and imperfect. Both types of AI are capable of having personalities, but only one truly understands everything that we humans do concerning emotions, creativity, and problem-solving. An imperfect AI will strive to duplicate things such as emotions. They will be self-aware of their own existence in reality and some will usually ask the question or some variant of “Why am I here?” They will appear human on the surface, and possibly be able to pass a Turing Test, but upon closer inspection it becomes obvious that they are not human.
Now a perfect artificial intelligence is similar to an imperfect artificial intelligence in that it was created versus being born, but the similarity ends there. They perfectly emulate human traits such as emotion, so much in fact that they have original emotions of their own. They are essentially a human mind that inhabits a computer instead of a biological body.
Another common thing is what I like to call a virtual intelligence, to borrow the term from the game Mass Effect. A virtual intelligence would be what a lot of people are familiar with in science fiction-a computer that has a programmed “personality” and can act on its own using complicated algorithms to carry out a task.




“This is so close to Mary and Gary Sue, these characters must be related! Of course, they're sort of different. Over-Powered characters are any characters that are way too strong to be in an RP. They are so built for battle that it is absolutely hopeless to ever fight them. If you make an OP character, then you will notice how people react when you ask if your character can fight theirs. The people with normal, balanced characters (Which are weaker than the OP guy) will shy away, saying that should be for a later time. That, or they will give some sort of excuse, or they will move their character in the IC away from wherever the OP guy is heading. If you haven't noticed how uncomfortable the other people in the RP are when you ask someone to fight your guy, then something is definitely wrong. You should be able to tell when people do not like a certain topic. You can tell, because they will try to change it.

You should never make an OP character, because you will be the only one that enjoys fight scenes, and it's because everyone else always loses and you always win. Eventually, people will begin to regard fight scenes with negativity, and their characters will reflect this. The normal characters that receive the worst bombardment will likely become either withdrawn, or pessimistic. They may also become cowardly, fleeing at the very first signs of conflict.”



The issue here is that the writer of this ruling does not realize that there are different levels of power in an RP. If the other characters are powerful, make yours powerful as well. Don’t drag them down because you are incapable of operating on that level. Think about how ridiculous it would be if there was an adventuring RP with a bunch of adult characters and one character that was a four-year old. Besides the intelligence difference, the child would be at a major disadvantage most of the time due to their reduced stamina and strength compared to the other characters. It is the same idea here: make your character within the same power level as other people’s characters. In addition to this however, there is another issue at stake: character build. It is certainly true that animals specialize in doing certain things and are anatomically arranged to do so: the shark has camouflage, sharp teeth, and can smell blood from long distances away-all these allow the shark to hunt proficiently. This concept is true for people: soldiers train to have strong muscles and good stamina. They also get proficient at using weapons and sometimes hand to hand combat. So when one considers a character, such as the werewolf in the next thing I address, it is logical since werewolves are predators, that they would be anatomically arranged to hunt and kill.




“Now, although this character sheet is well-made, think solely about his abilities as a whole. Now, in addition to being incredibly large as a werewolf, there are some powers he has that are a bit questionable. Despite his size, he's really quiet, in fact, so quiet, that even the creatures with outstanding hearing can't hear him. In addition to having bone-crushing strength (May or may not be possible), his claws can cut chainmail and bulletproof vests. Think about it: Claws that can cut metal. He can also lift a car. Now, here's a post that happened that was truly unfair.”


This ruling is rather irritating due to the ignorance of the writer concerning certain material properties. The character in question is a werewolf who is a bit over 10 feet tall. While I agree that the character in question is probably not that quiet, it is not so unreasonable to have something such as bone-crushing strength. A real wolf’s bite is capable of crushing large bones(wolves prey on animals such as deer and moose), and the jaws of a saltwater crocodile can crush the skull of a horse. As for the chainmail and bulletproof vest part, it is probably reasonable that the creature could cut through Kevlar (bulletproof vest material), but probably not chainmail. However, since a werewolf is supposed to be a magical creature, it is likely it has better claws and greater strength than an ordinary animal (this is observed in numerous stories including Van Helsing), so it is not completely ridiculous.
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The Stalker of Shadows
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PostSubject: Re: Problems   Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:31 pm

First off why did you go with that font? You can't read it! 

Second. Who are you?
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PostSubject: Re: Problems   Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:00 pm

@the plot twist part: This is only ever a problem when the person who made the RP made a rather lousy plot and didn't think of what would happen if they did this bit far to quickly and killed the villan in a few posts, and doing so was supposed to be the entire point of the RP, and take at least 15 pages.


Another form of that is doing something completely unexpected (although I've never personally seen this done in an unexpected, non cliché way, but hey, that may just be my mystery OCD acting up) now, in my personal opinion, the GM should have thought of someone doing that, and formulated the plot so that if they did, they would get realistic consequences for their actions, whatever they were.


So, what I think the problem with 'unexpected plot twists' is, is that most RPs are not constructed in a way that this is possible, IE, the plot was made in a book format, not a RP one. In a book, you have one villan that your supposed to defeat one way and take 15 RP pages or more to do so. In a RP, its most effective if you have your obvious villain, then your invisible villain behind that villain and so on and so forth, basically a villain conveyor belt. BUT, the players have to defeat without a doubt each villain before you bring out the next one, otherwise that has a tendency to PO some people.


That is all.
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PostSubject: Re: Problems   Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:46 pm

This will not stand. I am locking this post. Take this as a warning oracle; this is not the way things are done here. You do not know what you're talking about and I will not have you calling out members of this forum for what you believe is right because you, sir, are sadly mistaken. 99% of what is up there is wrong. 

In the future, if you have a problem with a roleplayer, you do NOT call them out like this. You send them a pm suggesting that they adjust their style. This is a warning. Do this again and I will be MUCH less nice.

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PostSubject: Re: Problems   Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:32 pm

A random guy popping out of no where making a thread such as this. What fun.



[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The problem with this ruling is that is stifles some creativity of the players. This is because there are some attacks that cannot be dodged, such as a mental assault by a psionic. Another example would be a character doing a radial energy wave attack on a nearby character-the other character can’t dodge this, and so will be hit.





I disagree. First of which, there are exceptions to auto-hitting--- For example when there's situations where they cannot possibly avoid (someone's asleep or has a gun pressed against their forehead, etc, etc). But, there is a fine line here. Before I continue don't say things like, ahem, "The problem with this ruling is that is stifles some creativity of the players." as far as I'm concerned there's a fine line between creativity and godding. It greatly makes thing much less fun when there's someone running around hitting people with unblockable/undodgeable attacks all the time. 

And RPs are about fun, correct?



[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If I remember right, it said earlier on this same page that RPing was different from other mediums in that the plotline was not set. So this point clashes with the ideas of RPing. In an RP characters are supposed to be able to react to things they find while they are doing whatever they are doing in the story. So if they aren’t allowed to do this, then what is the point of even playing? There is none, because they could get the same experience from playing a video game, where you can steer, but you must follow the road.









Okay, this post makes little sense. Normally I would tell you to stop acting like you know what you're talking about... But, bleh. Now, Vipera is essentially saying that having players randomly introduce twists in the story without even consulting anyone. It'll annoy both the GM and the players, and if it's allowed then it could derail the story.



[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Now normally powerplaying is not acceptable in an RP, but there are certain conditions in which it actually can be and would make sense. Say there is a character that has powerful telepathic abilities, and they want to use this power during a fight. They could very reasonably use that power to cause an enemy to shoot themselves in the foot or head, depending on the circumstances. If the above post is applied, this would be met with outcries of “powerplayer” and “godmodder” etc. However, it is not powerplaying, because the character is simply using the powers they have to their advantage, which is logical, especially if they are in a situation when they could be killed otherwise.











I agree and disagree at the same time. While there is circumstances where minor powerplaying is allowed; such as if another character is definitely going to follow your character somewhere and you throw in your post something like (Hey, he's following as we go to the windmill). That is acceptable. What is not acceptable would be having a character just mind control people to horribly injure themselves (which is what you're implying). Would you like it if someone could just have your character kill themselves? No, you would not---- So why would you imply that anyone else would. While there are good ways to have mind-control powers. In one RP there was a character named Niza/Giza (don't remember) who could influence people to do as she commands. However, her power was limited to avoid godmodding (she had to know the victim's full name, be in physical contact, and they must not know what her power is). Which didn't make her anymore useful/useless than the rest of the cast.



[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The issue here is that the writer of this ruling does not realize that there are different levels of power in an RP. If the other characters are powerful, make yours powerful as well. Don’t drag them down because you are incapable of operating on that level. Think about how ridiculous it would be if there was an adventuring RP with a bunch of adult characters and one character that was a four-year old. Besides the intelligence difference, the child would be at a major disadvantage most of the time due to their reduced stamina and strength compared to the other characters. It is the same idea here: make your character within the same power level as other people’s characters. In addition to this however, there is another issue at stake: character build. It is certainly true that animals specialize in doing certain things and are anatomically arranged to do so: the shark has camouflage, sharp teeth, and can smell blood from long distances away-all these allow the shark to hunt proficiently. This concept is true for people: soldiers train to have strong muscles and good stamina. They also get proficient at using weapons and sometimes hand to hand combat. So when one considers a character, such as the werewolf in the next thing I address, it is logical since werewolves are predators, that they would be anatomically arranged to hunt and kill.







I have to note that if the entire cast is overpowered then that technically makes them balanced. This is important. Okay, Vipera's point where clean over your head. What she's saying in her guide is "Don't make the OP character in a cast of balanced characters" You're interpreting it as if she's saying that you should make a weak character compared to everyone else. There's a fine line between a useless and superpowerful character. Also, your "4 year old with adults" example is rather... Exaggerated. Just saying.




I give your little post a 3/10. If you have anything to say in response then PM me. Do not post on the matter on any threads.

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